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Our lives are frequently and significantly affected by food. Because we must eat to survive, many human cultures have developed with food at their very core. The goal of this podcast is to explore the complexity and nuance of food systems, celebrate the progress we have made, and debate the best ways for humans to proceed forward into the future. 

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May 9, 2019

Our guest today is Dr. Segenet Kelemu. A native of Ethiopia and alumna of K-State, Dr. Kelemu is, by training, a molecular plant pathologist. Following a postdoc at Cornell University, she worked fifteen years as a senior scientist with the International Center for Tropical Agriculture (CIAT) where she eventually became the leader of Crop and Agroecosystem Health Management. In 2007 she decided to move back to Africa to work on agricultural development. Currently, she is the Director General of the International Centre of Insect Physiology and Ecology (ICIPE) in Nairobi, Kenya. Our conversation digs into some of the major issues African farmers are facing and the fascinating insect-centered solutions that Segenet and her team have developed.

For more on Dr. Kelemu and ICIPE check out their website at:




Insect Innovations: Solutions for Africa and the World with Dr. Segenet Kelemu – Insect Physiology & Ecology


Something to Chew On is a podcast devoted to the exploration and discussion of global food systems. It's produced by the Office of Research Development at Kansas State University. I'm Jay Weeks PhD candidate in the Department of Agronomy. My co host is Scott Tanona, an associate professor in the Department of Philosophy, who specializes in the philosophy of science. Everybody, welcome back. Before I introduce today's guest, you will hear an additional voice in this conversation and many more moving forward. Hopefully, I'm happy to announce a new member of our team. Since I recently finished my degree, I will be leaving the podcast at some point in the future. And Dr. Jon Faubion will be one of the hosts that takes over. John is the Charles Singleton professor of baking science in the department of grain science here at K State. He has extensive experience in the food industry and academia. So it's really nice because he brings a different perspective to the discussions from Scott and myself. So welcome to the podcast Jon. Today's episode features a truly fascinating discussion with Dr. Segenet Kelemu, a native of Ethiopia and alumna of K State. She is trained as a molecular plant pathologist, following a postdoc at Cornell University. She spent approximately 15 years as a senior scientist with the International Center for Tropical Agriculture in Colombia, where she eventually became the leader of crop in a row ecosystem health management. In 2007, she decided to move back to Africa to work on an agricultural development in her home continent. Currently, she is the Director General of the International Center of insect physiology and ecology in Nairobi, Kenya. Second, he has received many, many accolades, I encourage you to check out her full CV online, just to highlight a few. In 2013, she was elected a Fellow of the African Academy of Sciences. She was one of the five recipients of the 2014 L'Oreal UNESCO Women in Science Award. In May of that same year, Forbes Africa listed her as one of the top 100 Most Influential African women. And last year in 2018, she was selected by Bill Gates as one of the five heroes in the field, recognizing her work fighting poverty, hunger, and disease to provide opportunities for the next generation. Over the course of our conversation, we cover some of the major issues farmers in Africa are facing, and some of the really interesting solutions that she and her team are developing. It was a real privilege to speak with Segenet. And so I hope you all enjoy. Dr. Segenet Kelemu, welcome to the podcast. Thank you. So I will have introduced you a little bit ahead of time for other listeners, but we'd like to get your perspective and your background. So why don't you introduce yourself a little bit and talk about where you come from?


Okay, my name is Calum national, Ethiopia. But I currently live and work in Nairobi, Kenya.


In you work at the you're the Director General of the International Center of insect physiology and ecology, correct? Yes. So what do you do there?


So what I do is I'm not an insect scientist, but I have a huge number of insect sciences in Tamala G, so I direct the organization, overall, I'm responsible for the financial management, the scientific program, the translation of science to impact overall, I'm responsible of the institution, as the CEO of the of the organization. And so we work in, we have research and activity in 41 countries, African countries. And we have over 300 active partners globally, including 43 universities. So it's a very vibrant science research for development organization that focuses on agriculture and, and health and the environment. So it's a it's just extremely relevant and impactful organization with high quality science that contributes to the global scientific community.


Great, and so what are the kind of the big problems that your organization is trying to tackle?


Yeah, so we're a relatively small organization, but we tackle major issues facing Sub Saharan Africa, in for food production in human hands like malaria. Dengie yellow fever In crop pests, and the diseases side, insects, they transmit and, and also on also we work on beneficial insects like bees that are really critical. Carlos was pollinators not just only income generated by producing honey, we were called. So Africa now has also moved into silk, for example, silk production. Africa, many countries have aspiration to be producers of silk, and exporters into Asia, particularly China. So, we are also the only organizations that have effective program or research program and silkworms as well. So, we tackle relevant and really major constraints production system has constraints that impact multiple countries, we cannot do one constraint that's very important in one country, but it has to have a major impact on the continent. And also multiple countries at effect, such as certifies in, in cattle that transmit parasites and they're really, really, really major problem. And also on crops, we work on horticultural crops because horticultural crops like fruits and vegetables are really important as export income generators, but also for nutrition, they're extremely important. They can't live just on staple crops on maize and sorghum is so not just food security, but nutrition matters also to improve the diets of the population. So so and so we work on all these things. So horticultural crops, particularly, they are vulnerable to many pests and diseases. So farmers supply a lot of pesticides, which leave residues into the pesticide register in the final product, which are fixed trade, which affect also helps also, the so we were our major focus here is to produce and, and help generate bio pesticides, that are natural products and that are effective also against pests, control. So we have been really effective in those areas as well.


So what are some examples of the bio pesticides that you've worked on developing?


Yeah, so we have four or five bio pesticides that are currently commercialized and sold across Africa by our private sector partners. Okay, we are a research organization, we produce a technology product, but we are not equipped to commercialize them. So we work with private sector partners, they sign an agreement with us. And they commercialize it in Africa and outside of Africa. And they give us a reality out of a certain percentage of the sale, which goes into the research back into the digital that is effective. So our products are so effective. Now, the the the company originally that signed an agreement with us, which was a Kenyan based company, it's so successful, and almost all the products are they sell come from us that a Belgian company purchased the, the this company, essentially so we told them, okay, now you are going to sell our products in, in Europe, but we are actually we developed it for Africa. But you're going to pay us a lot more, because you're going to make more money. So we renegotiated the agreement, so they're going to pay us more. 


Yeah, say more scientists. Have you hired after that?


I think that's a good point. I think our majors major problem is actually recruitment. Yeah, yes. So there is a really global shortage of good scientists. Well, that's certainly true. Yeah. So it is really difficult although we give internationally very competitive package tax free salary and a lot of good package we pay a really very good proportion of their base salary into their pension plan contributions. is still I think it is a really difficult one because there is a shortage in the sense of more options, where to go to. I think also there is this bias concept that maybe can't do really high quality science in Africa. So we have first class, like anywhere else, facility, everything else. And yeah, they have a lot of opportunities, you have students who also to support and supervise and so on. So all this combination, but once they come, we persuade them to come and they don't want to leave. So but getting them there is difficult. So I think the European science or science are a little bit more open than others. So the largest number of scientists we have outside of Africa, Europeans, particularly Germans and, and French, the French also that's through an agreement we have with the French, the French in his research institution. So yeah, so we have a lot of products. But I think what distinguishes us from universities is the university you know, you can supervise students, you can publish good paper, and you're not accountable to make sure that it that your work is also goes to, to make impact or to change lives. For farmers, our whole sector or whatever, for society. But we are required to do that. We're not a university, but we are required to have really high quality publications in science in nature and all these things, but in medium to long term that has to be also translated to really solving constraints problems in society, in agriculture, and so that I find it really very gratifying. But also the other also thing I like is also the science or not just political science, this. So it's not just entomologists, we have entomologists virologists, we have economist this we have gender specialists, this we have anthropologists, we have all kinds of expertise. So why do we have all these things because that when you develop a technology, that uptake of the technology, it's not always easy, it's not straightforward. So, there are gender impacts. So and gender is not neutral always to all the technologies there are issues societal issues and that influence uptake of the technology. So, we incorporate all this expertise from the beginning. So that we don't go all the way in generating a product and or a technology and then we can scale it out because there is no there is no acceptance, could you just..


Yeah, could you describe something like an example like that where you know, there's a gender or social potential issue with social uptake that you know, how that designs the science from the beginning right rather than thinking about it.


Just to tell you notice specific from our organization, but in the previous organization, I have have been, so, they develop breeders developed beans, bean variety, high yielding variety, and then they tried to release it for uptake, but there wasn't a demand in the market, because demand the preference in the market is like a certain seed color, okay. Sure. So, also for women also to take it also particularly in Africa, the beans have to cook faster. Yeah. So if it is takes forever to cook then next time though, they will not not be exactly they will not pay the price to do so this if it was incorporated early that earlier the market prefer and farmers if there is no market acceptance ever going to produce the next time because it is business also we agriculture is not just feeding them. It's a business.


That's very much the same sort of reason that the introduction of sorghum in the United States failed for a whole variety of those very same reasons. Absolutely.


Yeah. And so one of the things also we are doing is this is a new program, which is just five years old is that we with saw that in across Africa and in Asia and Latin America also that traditionally people consume insects is a delicacy. His high protein nutrition is a lot of things. So what we notice also that this is not accepted maybe in Thailand and in China apart, but Thailand has mainstream that you can buy a package of any insect cricket another you want in supermarket, but in Africa, this was not mainstream. So, it is on the delicacies, insects are collected from the forest by women and children and seasonally and so, what happens is that the overharvest also from the forests and it becomes it causes imbalance also, because some of these insects also edible once they play a role in the ecosystem also. So, it contributes to also the depletion of the biodiversity of insects. So, recently my organization has experience in mastering over 100 species of insects for research purpose. So I said, why don't we start the program insects for food and feed. So chicken organic chicken, they go around in our garden to pick what the pick is. So this is not the thing. So if we translate this applies our experience to edible insects in mass reading them on substrates that are easily available, that are cheap. So we can mainstream this so people can produce it like chicken like fish in their backyard, and the enhanced nutrient, also the nutrition and also security, because food system is not just filling your stomach with starch, you have to forget as a nutrient so. So we started that, and that is now our fastest growing program. People got really fascinated donors really would like something in us automated testing, and approving our proposals, and so on. And I think the beauty of this is also that we manage the influence policy as well. So based on our work on chicken feed production, with insects, so Kenya and Uganda now developed a policy authorizing the use of insects in the for livestock feed, oh, for chicken feed. So following that action soon after that, also, FDA also approved I'm not saying that the affiliates decision was influenced by Kenya and Uganda, but I think this is now a trend globally as so because and this protein economy that protein source of protein becomes a key issue. So Kishu for boosting, nutrition and so on. So, and I think the way we are producing food, the way we are accessing protein source and nutrients, in the long run with population grows, it's not sustainable. So we have to do things differently. So we see that insects replacing a lot of this particularly in feed in animal feed also.


That's interesting. So you're actually in some of these cases you're really serving as the proof of concept. Yeah.


Yeah, no, actually, now the chicken feed for based on black soldier fly actually is now is mainstreamed in particular in Kenya and Uganda because there is a policy now in the private sector, the feed sector is taking up this technology. But one one thing also this black soldier fly was that we invited all these feed producers private sector to my institution and we are discussing how we can't improve and to learn from them what is what are the issue in the marketing of this? So they said there's no issue if we if they could actually produce fast enough in a large scale that the market is there and it's millions of dollar market but one issue they said technical issue they told us is a the the insect this black soldier fly produces so much oil they had difficulty grinding it into into powder it guts take it as Oh, yeah, great idea. Soon after I finished that. That meeting, I put the chemistry team to look into the oil content of the edible insects. Fascinating, fascinating. So now we have a paper to publish that these edible insects have really high quality oil. So we compare them the oil content to the quantity and the quality is a component as well to fish cod. Fish oil to olive oil to sesame oil, by far these are superior. Okay, in What characteristics does Omega three all the sessions Pauline surgery? Yes, yeah fully saturated ones, antioxidants, vitamin D. So these can actually play in high quality diet but you can literally drink it actually, it's really amazing quality. So, there is nothing in the literature so okay now we are going to publish on the visa first to do but this is going to open a whole nother area business and job creation and helps implement they have also like a the the insects say the black locust desert locusts has also this very beneficial husband if shall steroids so it consumes on consumes the plant products, grass and weed seedling and water whatever. So we analyze it also the feed how much of these compounds exist, like weed seedlings, they have very minute amount of steroids. So this we put that the desert locusts on this strictly with seedling died. So they fit on that, and this minute amount of the sterols that are very beneficial and you know for cardiovascular health and para hustling, and they multiplied to 40 fold to sales. It's like a little factory. We don't know. Yeah, we don't know the mechanism how they did. So we published a paper on that. And once we did, we had all these journalists, CNN and Al Jazeera and Rosie Sosa Can you cook for us? And they were filming there and so on. So there is I think a whole lot of things we can do different diets, different outlooks say. And I think we can learn a lot from traditional so the natives and traditionally what people have been consuming. And we come in and put the science behind it also. So there is they don't know the science, but they have been consuming for a generation. Yeah, yeah. It's true to them. Yes, foods, but it just has so much that so many useful things.


Could you see the insect oil being co product or a byproduct if it was extracted? So you'd have like a defatted. Insect or is or is it the is the content enough that it's appropriate that it's unnecessary to de fat?


Like for no goodness, right? You can use it. Yeah. So but I think the beauty of it is also you can extract the word do high market and you can use it or in the cosmetic industry also all the moisturizer sub oil. And so if you see this oils, moisturizer, anti aging, whatever cream, he can't stop it but so, those are so they have to infuse antioxidants in vitamin D from other sources. But this one is completed as it is. So I think we can license it. We are thinking to approach L'Oreal to those guys and generate the income into our research for that. But I think the beauty of this also once you extract the oil, the byproduct there also the protein the fiber, you can repackage it for feed also. Yeah, so it's countries anything. And what we have done is also when we are developing the insect rearing methodology, we are looking also different substance subsidies that are cheap, that are also easily accessible. So we are producing them on restaurant waste kitchen waste issue in the restaurant industry. 


Yeah, those things. And we are doing it also on brewery West also. Amazing. Yeah, and these Potato Potato industries are the companies that produce chips and everything they produce massive piece of waste. And that we found that actually is fantastic for a number of these insects. So you can clean up the environment, while you're also converting thing into high production. So this is a religious when we know what so we're not advocating this just for Africa things this is should be a global trend as for from many angles.


How does the world taste?  I mean, this consumer.


I haven't tested it, but I'm going to test it. So, but there we are not, at the moment they are producing it enough for chemical analysis. So, but I was telling this story to the president of Ethiopia who is with a friend of mine. Oh, she says, Can you please give me like 10-20 meal, I want to try it on the moisturizer. She says, Let me try it on me first I don't want to take so. But I think it's just really exciting thing to do. So just to tell you where the threads are, there is a delicacy of a a Ganden delicacy. This green grasshopper type thing, people during the season, they go crazy, harvesting it and everything else so and slowly so 100 gram of that it costs about $3. So more than chicken more than anything. So I said, well, let's just do this thing. Actually, the Minister of Agriculture asked me personally, if we could do this mass reading thing on this thing. So and so we looked into the three literature many people have tried to in the past, to try to mass read it, it was impossible. Our own scientists tried it also impossible. So I said no, it can't be impossible. So so we have to try it. Because yeah, so this graduate student, marvelous graduate student did something that nobody has thought about. So the reason that people felt the mass rate was they assume because it is a grasshopper, they assume the insect on the live donor grasses and all this. So this guy goes out in Uganda, collectors from different ecosystem these insects then he starts dissecting looking into the guts to see us through DNA analysis to see what this insect has been consuming. So it's not just grassy desert it was eating grass, it was eating other insects. Ants and so on. So I say great. So he said from the different college college consumed and he looks at the proportion what this insect has been eating because it was looking for proteins from other insects so based on that he designed the diet now we can master it doesn't work major breakthrough Yeah, I'm like this guy.


Give him his degree. Yeah.


This is like so no, we are going to make it faster so that the uptake would be just like that because it makes a lot of money. It's nutrient so one of the oil analysis nutritional analysis we did also was on this particular it's very well it has also a lot of micronutrients as well. Zinc regeneration time for the Yeah, this is variable among the various insects so so for this particular insect so we're trying really hard to perfect the system so that we can we can really boost the colony size as well the colonies I see low Oh yeah, but the generation time for most insects is really not more than like four so five weeks.


Do you have to trick them into believing that it's winter or not winter or is this hot tropical? 

Tropical tropical around January yeah all year round, but we what we try to do is to imitate the nature the natural habitat where they have been and diet also we raised them also is a also tries to meet it in their natural diet also. But we have to see also how so the one one thing also we notice is that when you're putting them in a confined space, there's a lot of cannibalism. Yes, they eat each other. So we are learning in the process a lot of things we're learning also so and how we can do this and make it more effective. So we look at also when we put them in a different diet. We look at also the nutrition profile whether that affects also the nutrition and nutrition content at the end. It says really an amazing, exciting thing. So yeah,


yeah, no, that's I mean, that's, that's amazing. It's really interesting. So assuming you're perfect this system, right? You'll then go to wheat then like, roll it out to smallholder farmers so that they can they can grow them or we try to work with a company to do this at a larger scale a little bit of both. What's the process? Excellent question.


So I think it will be both sides. But they the smallholder farmer, it will be maybe for consumption, their own consumption to feel to enhance their nutrition. But they can also sell. So this really good question that you're asking because that modality also matters. So we got a relatively good side funding from the Rockefeller Foundation to this five different models for this year. Yeah, absolutely. So one of the models who are testing is actually the companies, because then we talk to the various companies also on the ground, so what would you like to do so? So one of the things that they have preference is to set up outgrower system, where the contracted farming, where the contract selected farmers to produce high quality insects, and with a guaranteed market and supplies the companies? 


So something like Tyson would do here in the United States for chicken? Exactly. 


Are you producing hops or? Yeah, so the producers do also, I think we see that would be really a win win for one, it would give a guaranteed access and market to farmers to produce and generate this produce and supply the companies. And they have a guaranteed income. Yeah, hard the other one they can produce also and the consumers themselves. So we see that model may be the win one.

What are the major different kinds of impacts you're thinking about when you're thinking about these different models when you so like, which one works, but works for what like so impact? Impact on farmers, you looking to sort of feed as many people as possible, like okay, yeah, there's something about the different kind of variable?

Yeah, yeah, excellent, I think, excellent question. Again, I think I'm impressed as you guys. Know, you're easily. So this is? This is a really good question. So I think from our perspective, that one, we really want to boost the nutritional quality, the access to nutrition to people. So in most people, you know, the diet is not diverse. So starches, like heavy consumption of starch and just for energy, but I think that is not good enough, you know, you have to have a balance. So nutrition is really important for us that they have access to a balanced diet and nutrition where they can get micronutrients, they can get protein, they can get vitamins, and so on, and so on. And insects happen to provide all this in one package? The answer is, I think, so people don't just leave on food only. So we have also to make sure that they have income, the income so that they can send their kids to school, so that they have better quality of life. And education is like yeah, what can you give to your kid better than education, for a lifetime of gifts of livelihood and knowledge and so on. So that is really important income really important. The other I think, which really matters to me personally, is also reduction of labor to women children. So if we men in Africa really given a disproportionate amount of task, it's just from morning to night, it's endless. 


So this, which affects the possibilities for education and then back this like if you are women to just spend a chunk of their time just on labor. Go and fetch water going Feature Feed to animals go and fetch insects from the forest right the green Yeah, Brenda green Andrews is saying you're really short chaining also sick kids. So it's study after study shows that if you really invest in women in the education and data you are investing in the next generation of people also because women spend their income on their kids, on their families. So this is really important. Also, if you reduce the labor, enhancing income to the family, you do a lot of different things and you will improve the society, you will improve the education and life in the hands of the next generation of the kids. So this is important for us as well, for me personally, because I grew up also in a village doing all this grinding work, and school was just an afterthought. Okay, when you finish, you can go to school. So, this is really important. 


So we look at all these components, you lived here for a while. Yes. So you probably found that the farmers in this part of the world are pretty conservative. Yeah, thanks. Is that the case? In Kenya and Uganda as well? Do you have to? Is it difficult to convince them to make a change? Yeah. How do you account?


Absolutely, I think here, they can afford to experiment because they have government support, they have larger land, they have a lot of things. In Africa, it's a lot more conservative, because you know, experimenting with any technology or product is a luxury. So they can take that type of risk and the risk is greater right, the risk is too high for them to experiment with something new. So, I mean, it is one thing I me, me going in a four wheel drive to the firemen telling them what to do and then I go away. So, that conservativism comes from being risk covers, and they have every reason to be discovered. Yeah. So so we try are many different ways. So what they do, they are very smart, actually pharmacy, we learn a lot from them. So what they do is that if they we have to put like large demonstration sites to show them and we do it together with them to show them actually, you can do this thing and at harvest time, you can go and you can come and visit us how the plants grow and the maize is doing well and everything and later you can harvest and see how much actually you can have this compared to yours. And so even after he shows them all that you have to they're still they're doing it on their farm is like really shaky. So, what they do is that they divide their plots show them several demonstration maybe sometimes two three seasons, say divide the plots and then do the experts science in this area. So I asked that we have this one fabulous technology I think you were there my seminar, the push pull technology so I said to I go regularly to farmers in different countries to see also and to learn and what can we do other things for them and to assess also the technology how it was. So I said let me go take me to a farmer who is a first time adopter of this technology to see so they took me to this farm and the guy had the small plots of this bush full day as I say it just regular and this one they are Galera just so pathetic. This one is really booming. 


So for the listeners who aren't familiar with this push pull it's a really fascinating system. Would you mind describing it? 


Yeah. So the push pull technologies, it is a very knowledge intensive technology but the stablishing it is fairly straightforward. It's so, the crop you have this maze, it uses two companion plants, one a legume called desmodium and it is intercropped with maize. The other one a grass forage grass is a feed for animals it is planted in the border rock surrounding the field. So how this is done is a lot of science, a lot of chemistry is behind it. So I'm not going to try to explain that. So, the plant that is more than which is planted in intercrop tourism is it naturally emits volatile compounds into the air which insects hate. So it repels it so it is a push that's good. The grass produces other set of compounds that they smell in this attractive to the insects so they ran away from the maze. Because of the because of this intercropped plant and then the grass they go to the grass, they lay their eggs, but the eggs cannot develop. So because it The grass actually is not a real horse. They're just fooled. So that cycle just completely fascinating thing. So this was developed 20 years ago by us a by sippy long before I joined to control one major pest called the stem borer of maize. But over the years that we discovered that it actually does a lot more than symbol, it controls a very nasty parasitic weed called Striga, which has no control. Other control, it controls has a pistol seat, it is a high quality feed for animals, it improves the soil, it fixes nitrogen onto the soil, it is just a technology which is it reduces aflatoxins. It sounds too good to be true. But when you go to the field, even when you are in the air, if you are going to fly up there, you can easily tell which one is pushed. Which one is not. Yeah, it's just amazing technology. So but even when you see that the farmer satellites I have to see. So this one time, the first time I adapted farmers I went to visit so that so he divided his plot to experiment with it. And they say then is like this is conventional field is just pathetic maize and sorghum this one is just a push pull is just three times better four times with so I said to him, why didn't you do there is and he said, Yeah, you see, Madam I'm doing all this now. I saw how it works. Now I'm, expanding it to the rest of my field. And he said in one season, now he has a Holy Year round enough feed for porridge for his family, and even sell. So just in one thing. So this is such a rewarding. So we won multiple awards on this technology over the last several years,


It's a really elegant solution.


So eight countries have adopted it all across Africa, but our plan is to expand it in many different things. So it's a win win, it's a so during the drought season also it just provides a lot of because these are companion plants are perennial, perennial crop plants. So feed to feed is a huge issue to cattle. So this is solving that also. So and in areas where there is no problem of this particular pest against which for which this was developed, people still adopt it because of the feed value. Yes, this is amazing. So this is a long answer to the question. So that risk averse, the and and also this conservatism is even even more than because they don't get farmers don't they're on their own in Africa, they don't get subsidy for profit. They don't have corruption or they don't have access to finance from the banks. So because agriculture is seen as high risk. So of course, they have to be very conservative, right? You just have to be able to prove that and to really support them all the ways. Right. So yeah.


It's great stuff.


We know that you're short on time here, we really appreciate you taking the time to speak with us. I'm sure we could go on for hours and keep on talking. But yeah, is there anything in the last few minutes here that you'd like to say that we haven't covered that you'd like our listeners to know? 


Oh, I think we covered a lot of what I want to say. I think I just wanted to say if there you have listeners, young people out there who don't know what they want to do with their lives, I think agriculture is a really novel, novel field. Because food comes first. If you don't have food, you don't need anything else. Right? That's a priority. So this is a novel field I need to go to. And it's gratifying. And, I encourage young, bright people to go into college of agriculture. Seriously. 




I think a short talk would you what you would convince a lot of people. Oh, okay. 


Thank you. So, that's been great. 


Yeah. Thank you. Thanks. Thank you so much. 


I really enjoyed also, I think you are you guys have right on the mark. Questions are amazing. Yeah.


If you have any questions or comments you would like to share check out our website at and drop us an email.


Our music was adapted from Dr. Wayne Goins’s album Chronicles of Carmela. Special thanks to him for providing that to us. Something to Chew On is produced by the Office of Research Development at Kansas State University.